UNION APPROVAL LOW

 

Union approval low, but more still side with labor over gov’t

Carrie Dann writes:With tens of thousands of public sector workers jamming the halls of the Wisconsin statehouse – and similar labor battles brewing in Ohio and Michigan – Republican governors and Americans around the country are contemplating the state of the unions.

The fracas in Madison has emphasized the divide between those who view unions favorably and those who don’t – a gulf that has also deepened as union membership has declined.

Per a new survey from the Pew Center for People and the Press, Americans’ positive perceptions of unions are languishing at the lowest levels in the last quarter century. Just 45 percent express positive views about labor unions, and only a quarter say that they help American companies to compete globally.  

Another poll conducted by the Clarus Research Group found even deeper opposition to the unionization of government employees specifically, with 64 percent of registered voters saying that government workers should not be able to join unions that bargain for higher pay and benefits.

Both surveys found sharp differences along party lines, with Republicans much more likely to have an unfavorable view of unions than Democrats.

But, Pew notes, the public’s opinion of labor organizations is similar to its wariness of big business. Public approval of corporations has plummeted even more sharply than that of unions in the past decade.  According to the poll, 47 percent of Americans say they view corporations positively, down from about 70 percent in the late 1990s.

And, despite the data showing lower national esteem overall for unions, Americans still say that they’re generally inclined to side with labor groups in disputes with state or local governments.

Asked whose side they would generally favor in a conflict between unions and state or local governments, 44 percent of respondents told Pew that they would support the labor group while 38 percent picked the government.

According to the Bureau of Labor statistics, union membership has declined from 20 percent of all wage and salary workers in 1983 – the first year that the bureau collected comparable statistics – to just under 12 percent today.

Public sector workers are much more likely to belong to a union than those who work in private industry. Over 42 percent of local government employees – many of them teachers, firefighters, and police officers – say they are members of a union, while under seven percent of private sector workers are members of a labor organization.

Union membership is highest among African Americans and workers 55-64 years old. Less than 5 percent of workers under 24 are members of a union.

810 comments below Share Discuss this article Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 … 16 Spanky- Comment collapsed by the community

Private retirement – 100% from your own pay.

Government union pension – 100% from taxes. 0 copay.

Yep, seems totally fair and a winning argument for them unions.

• 68 votes

#1 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:50 PM EST OMG really people?!! Comment collapsed by the community

agree spanky.

Unions had a purpose at one time, but much like politicans they got greedy and power hungry.
they will hurt you, kill you if you speak out against the unions, and if you dont believe me see Jimmy Hoffa.

money is the root of all evil, and unions are full of both!

• 52 votes

#1.1 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:55 PM EST bigD-2278400

Spanky, you are incorrect. I teach, and I have money taken out of my pay check every two weeks and put towards my retirement fund. I also worked in the private sector for many years and never had an employer that didn’t contribute to my 401K.

• 46 votes

#1.2 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:11 PM EST Spanky-

Either you are not in Wisconsin or Jansing & Co got it wrong. They had a pretty little graph and a chart and everything. Employer contributions are great, but not nearly as cush as a pension.

But regardless, 100% of the pay you recieve is from tax dollars. Big difference, right?

• 29 votes

#1.3 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:37 PM EST Jay in PA

I was a union employee for the Commonwealth of PA. I contributed 7% of my pay off the top, each and every payday towards my retirement. I also contributed towards the cost of health insurance. BTW, I had a “manager” who showed up for work somewhere around 11:00 A.M., left for lunch at 12:00 and returned after her nap at 3:30. She was nonunion, of course.

• 40 votes

#1.4 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:39 PM EST Tank Carson Comment collapsed by the community

Republicans just seem to live in an evidence free zone. Here are the numbers (empirical and indisputable) for for my misinformed and blissfully ignorant Right leaning friends. Wisconsin by its own accounting projected a BUDGET SURPLUS for 2012 of 121.4 million dollars. Let me repeat that – a BUDGET SURPLUS for 2012 of nearly one hundred and twenty four million dollars! One more time – a BUDGET SURPLUS of 121.4 million. However, the very first order of business by our good Republican Governor was to @#!*% away nearly one 140 million dollars in tax breaks for corporations and multinationals (many based out of state)! DO THE MATH!

To the extent that there is an imbalance governor Walker is claiming there is a $137 million deficit – it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues THE CRISIS WOULD NOT EXIST! Further, the only Unions exempted by his draconian measures are not surprisingly the police, fireman and state troopers unions of his state – why you ask – they were the only unions that donated to his election champaign! Further, the average salary and benefit level accrued by Wisconsin state employees is nearly 4% LOWER then their private counterparts. This is simply about going after state and federal employee unions nation wide because they are the number one contributor in both campaign dollars and man power for the Democratic Party. This is about destroying the American right of collective bargaining so in the end the only entities that can benefit from Citizens United are corporation many of which are foreign owned. So when FOX News vomits up a figure of 37 billion dollars for the budget surplus in Wisconsin – they are pulling it out of their a-s-s! And for those of you who characterize snow plow drivers, teachers, cops, sanitation workers etc. as thugs, Communists, Socialists and even as lazy pigs – you are callous, ignorant, mean spirited, nasty un-American fools who wouldn’t know a FOX free fact if it it hit you in the face!

• 53 votes

#1.5 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:39 PM EST Doc Strange

I keep hearing that “unions had a purpose at one time.” What has changed? Please explain to me how an employer will no longer exploit their employees? Nothing has changed, this is the way it always has and always will be.

And I’m not even in a union.

• 60 votes

#1.6 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:40 PM EST Rob Simpson-898234

Please be more specific and factual in your claims. Your numbers are all ideological not factual, and your premise is incorrect. You do not know what agreements were made, you do not know what promises were broken, and you certainly do not know the amounts that are taken from government related employees to fund a portion of their retirement plan. You also have never worked for the wages teachers make with the promise that to make up for the low wages they would have a retirement.

I used to believe unions had served their purpose and were a negative for the country. After the last three years I have come 180 degrees, and take heed of the fact that without unions we would be working 6 days a week, 16 hours a day, at a dollar an hour, no vacations, no sick leave, no work rights at all.

If you don’t see that coming back within the influence Corporations now have in Washington, please take a second look.

• 51 votes

#1.7 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:43 PM EST transorbital Comment collapsed by the community

Well, at least we know how ‘Spanky’ got his screen name. Let me guess. Sit at a desk all day? Produce nothing? Spend a lot of time on the Internet at work?

Guess who makes your buildings, puts out your fires, maintains your infrastructure, and educates your children? Yep, union members.

But none of that is important as long as your computer in your little cubicle keeps working, right Spanky?

• 23 votes

#1.8 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:47 PM EST AZChzhd

Tank…time to post something new, man.

The Republicans in Wisconsin are doing their work as advertised. They ran their campaigns on doing things like this…and won.

The Republicans are listening…to the taxpayers, not the union workers. The Democrats are listening to the union workers, not the taxpayers. If public employees are funded by taxpayers, that makes the taxpayers technically their boss. And the taxpayer just got fed up with their sky-high property tax bills with no end in sight to fund the union demands. Even Jerry Brown in California acknowledges that public workers and their pensions and benefits are drowning the state. Ironically, Brown is about to attack a beast he helped create in his first go-around as governor in the 70s.

• 38 votes

#1.9 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:48 PM EST Kevin Bitz

I don’t know where you get this No Union co-pay. Our township employees and teachers pay 7.5% of our salary… so speak of what you know…. not what Fox/Journal/Murdoch tells you to say.. and we pay $70 per paycheck for family medical care…. (biweekly)….

• 24 votes

#1.10 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:49 PM EST RDecker-1576099

!00% of government contractors, consultants and vendors pay comes from taxes as well but nobody seems to want to curtail their bonuses, retirement, stock options or profit! Why is that? Something I have never understood from the idiots and kool-aid drinkers, that a private business that rapes the taxpayers is perfectly reasonable but a governement employee who sacrifices, yes, you heard me, SACRIFICES high income potential in order to serve the public interest is nothing but a dirtbag greedy bottom feeder. Amazing!….

Most government employees are college educated and professionally licensed individuals who have elected to serve YOU, the taxpayer and private citizens of this country. They are now under attack by those who will start in the public sector and then spread those same “ideals” to the private sector. Anyone who doesn’t believe that deserves what is sure to be coming…..

• 34 votes

#1.11 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:51 PM EST spider-737231

Tank:

What is the source of your data? I’d like to read it.

Thanks.

• 5 votes

#1.12 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:51 PM EST rrobeson Comment collapsed by the community

Unions have a purpose, to protect their members against the nature of the universe (i.e. against God).

Unions have one purpose, to become so powerful as to be able to destroy their enemy (the employer).

Public employees who are union members have one significant enemy: THEIR NEIGHBORS! They hate their neighbors and desire to blackmail them to give them more money up until they are sated. If not, they threaten to destroy their neighbors lives, their neighbors children, their neighbors freedoms!

Well done state employee union members, you have the power. Destroy! Destroy! Destroy! It’s all about you!

• 15 votes

#1.13 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:52 PM EST g momma Comment collapsed by the community

spanky can you cite your source about government union pensions????

rrobeson what the f@ck are you talking about? you make no sense whatsoever!!!

• 13 votes

#1.14 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:01 PM EST Miss America-2898885

• 2 votes

#1.15 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:01 PM EST rrobeson

g momma,

Sorry you were raised in public schools. The message was clear. Unions have one weapon, to punish and shut down an employeer and to defeat the forces of nature in the form of natural competition. The strong survive, the weak don’t. Why do you think so many jobs have been lost overseas? Because the identical thing can be done over their cheaper!!! That means the employees that think they’re worth more, aren’t and never were! Their desire to remain in a utopian universe is unsustainable and they suffer awfully as a result. Unfortunately, they’re dragging the rest of the country down with them. The rest being those that are willing to compete against market forces (i.e. nature)!

Public employee unions are unique in one way. They desire to force the taxpayers to give them more. The taxpayers are their neighbors, so public employee members have created a universe where it’s them against us! us being the people paying for them! And they’re too uneducated and insecure to realize that what they’re doing is morally wrong. If you can’t stand up for your own worth, then you can’t stand up at all!

• 13 votes

#1.16 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:05 PM EST Chad in Montana

RDecker, maybe you should look into the process of how the scumbag contractors and suppliers get their contracts with the goverment. I work for one of these “scumbag contractors” bidding this work and we have to bid public work with so little profit margin that we barely can keep the doors open. And thats if everything goes right, if something goes wrong or if we bid it wrong we could potentially put the company out of business, because there is no pleading for more money, what we bid is what we get unless something justifies a change order. I don’t know how it can get any more fair for the government.

• 8 votes

#1.17 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:07 PM EST ANDROLOMA

Beyond the hysteria that folks like rrobeson insist upon or the past prejudices exampled by those such as Spanky, who ya gonna trust more? Government, corporations, or unions? Unions have helped me and two generations of blue-collar workers before me help ourselves out of mind-numbing poverty and into productive careers. Unless you’ve served in a union, you should keep your ignorant opinions to yourself. The “organized crime” aspect is no worse than the corruption you tolerate in DC by constantly voting for one of two parties. Where doesn’t the hypocrisy infiltrate?

Transorbital, Rob Simpson, Doc Strange, and others: head of the class for you guys! 🙂

• 14 votes

#1.18 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:09 PM EST Grass Roots

Rob Simpson, please go down to your state capital and read “ALL” the employer laws in place. Unions are destroying our ability to compete in todays world, I do not have to explain or tell you much more just listen to anyone answering a customer service call? India? How about paper or clothing? China? At some point unions have to decide if making less money keeps corporations here. I own my own company how about you? Go ahead and hire some union guys and see how productive and profitable you are, you will head straight to that same state capital and research BANKRUPTCY LAW!

• 13 votes

#1.19 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:13 PM EST DylanDog

What – are you Glenn Beck? Fear mongering in CAPS – scream louder and we might have to believe.

Look, the word is Union. It means a collection, a group – in this case a collection of workers that are able to negotiate for their benefit. Like your weekends, thank your Union members.

The alternative, one that we are rapidly approaching in this society of have and have nots, will be a nice gathering in the city square. For a couple of weeks. That should ring a bell for you Bucky – I think even FOX showed the free video.

• 9 votes

#1.20 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:14 PM EST Lisa2

I see there are a lot of misinformed people posting here. If you don’t want to look ridiculous, you sure fooled me. Opened your mouths and removed all doubt. Wisconsin public workers do indeed contribute. The state matches what they put in. Also, if it weren’t for the work of unions, you wouldn’t have your cushy 9-5 M-F jobs, or OSHA regulations, safety protocols, and above-minimum wage. Now you want to throw them under the bus. You’ll be next. Then, do you think those public employees will stand up for you? @#!*% to the no.

• 19 votes

#1.21 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:14 PM EST Chicago Mario

@ Transorbital

Excellent comment! Well said!

• 4 votes

#1.22 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:15 PM EST rrobeson

androloma,

The only hysteria is you thinking the government is different from us. You trust those that feed you more. Fair enough. That is a law of nature. But you’re feeding from a fixed pie and the more you eat, the less somebody else eats. And the taxpayers are eating less compared to union members now and they don’t like being forced to pay for the union members in that way. Your happy with the union that feeds you. Ok, but be warned, the union doesn’t create anything. It isn’t anything. It’s just a threat against us, and we’re not buying it anymore!

• 10 votes

#1.23 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:15 PM EST tdlee

Most government employees may be college educated………..Scott Walker, the governor of Wisconsin, is not a college graduate. He dropped out of college with about a C average. Just wanted to point that out. Not saying it’s good or bad.

It scares me when any governement official is in a rush to push a bill through that hasn’t even had time to cool. And, after announcing that he wants it passed in a week, has the National Guard on stand-by if needed??? Sounds like paranoia…and, that maybe he knows he’s not following an ethical course or approaching it with integrity. My representative has not talked to me or my neighbors or my community to get out view point-to represent me. There hasn’t even been time to go through the bill and take a good look at it.

I would say this regardless of the party. Many politicians seem to think for themselves and lean towards things that will better themselves as opposed to the people they represent. Sad and out of control.

• 5 votes

#1.24 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:18 PM EST Joe Radmacher

I worked as a public sector employee and got all of those great benefits. Then I found out that I could make almost three times as much at GE. I also paid for Health Insurance and Retirement at my cushy public job and didn’t have enough money left over to pay child support and eat. Maybe there are a few cushy public sector jobs out there but I sure didn’t have one or see anyone that did.

Just because we pay for teacher, firefighters and police with taxpayer money doesn’t mean they didn’t earn it. What upsets me is this @#!*% Governor is leaving the police out of it so he can call them in to beat up the protesters if he needs them. They need to impeach this idiot!

• 14 votes

#1.25 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:21 PM EST rrobeson Comment collapsed by the community

Lisa, you’re a financial idiot. Matching funds! Really! Hmm, read this real slowly then read it again or have somebody read it to you. Your salary is paid by taxes (all of it). Those taxes are paid by your neighbors, and yourself! You put some of it back to your pension. The state also pays for some of your pension. That really only adds to your salary. It does this through ‘taxes’, paid by your neighbor. Your salary is determined not by the market, but by union contract, so outsourcing is an option to those people who want to save money. Those people who want to pay less taxes are your neighbors (and yourself), the taxpayers. Do you really think the state produces profit which is owed to you? Do you think if you contribute part of your taxpayer paid salary to your pension that your actually ‘contributing’?

That’s the problem with unions. They were designed to extract unnecessary profits from greedy owners of corporations. Unfortunately, the only owner of the state is the taxpayer. You’re extracting solely from them (and yourself).

The government serves best that serves least (Thomas Paine).

If the work you do is worthwhile to others, you don’t need a collective to defend it. If it’s not, then you morally shouldn’t defend it! Remember the tenth commandment: Thou shalt not covet…

The sole purpose of unions is revenge by way of coveting.

• 14 votes

#1.26 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:23 PM EST dsb

Spanky you are incorrect about pensions. For instance, in Texas we contribute 6% of our income each paycheck to the pension fund. The state contributes 6% by law. Those funds are invested by the fund. Pension funds have huge portfolios of stocks and bonds. They try to make 8% each year on the investments for the portfolios. States have gotten trouble because:

1) many government entities (state and local) stopped making their part of the contributions when the market was doing well. The funds were making enough money without the government contributions.

2) when the market crashed those portfolios lost a lot of value – which is why they are short now. By ‘short’ I mean at current estimates they ‘may’ not have sufficient funds to meet their obligations. Of course, if their investments grow enough this won’t be a problem.

3) because of these funds taxpayer monies are not used to pay the benefits. Taxpayer money is only used when matching funds are provided but as I pointed out – for years many government entities did not even contribute what they were supposed to (in spite of laws).

There was a time not too long ago that most companies had the same structure as the government funds. The Federal government created 401Ks for people who were not covered by a defined contribution pension. If you were covered you were not eligible for a 401K. When I started working for the state I was not eligible.

Then companies found that they could save money by not providing pensions and more and different vehicles were developed around the 401K idea.

It is obvious from your posts that you know nothing about how pension funds work and that you are jealous because you don’t have one.

• 5 votes

#1.27 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:24 PM EST Noelle-588175

I’ll ditto that, Androloma! As a union, card carrying retiree from the Northwest, I support ALL public employees at all levels of government.

Strength, courage, and power to the People….my wish is that you prevail in this great fight in Wisconsin and in every state in the union for that matter.

As far as I am concerned, the WI Governor is the employer of all public employees—i.e. the Teachers—and is wreaking havoc upon them! How can their union not be there to protect them?

• 10 votes

#1.28 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:25 PM EST Gunner1995

bigD

My wife’s employer puts in 1 dollar for every 2 my wife pays to her 401k, and she pays 50 percent of her medical. My employer puts in ZERO in my 401k and pays 80 percent of my medical. Bet neither of these come close to your benefits, and we work 12 months a year, have to attend night classes at our expense to keep up with our industries, and I have CEC’s I have to obtain to continue my license.

You work 8 to 9 months a year, get summer’s to vacation, attend classes, etc. and our students are learning so much we rank towards the bottom in the world in math and science. Oh that’s right, we only teach test taking and diversity now…..

• 6 votes

#1.29 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:30 PM EST Straightline

@ spanky…the pay comes from taxes, because public workers are doing the peoples work, where else would it come from? As far as your pretty little charts, they are mistaken, I pay every paycheck for retirement, medical etc. So you are just advancing the intentionally ignorant position of the Republican party which is trying to break unions, not because of money, but because this is their mantra for the 2012 election, a way to limit the organizational strength of the working class!

• 7 votes

#1.30 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:30 PM EST MS-85

There’s a reason why we’re heading towards another Gilded Age full of plutocrats, and a growing gap between the workers and the corporations. The GOP has done a number on normal Americans, convincing them that union-members, not Wall Street, are the one’s to fear and hate. Of course, Wall Street swindles hundreds and hundreds of billions from taxpayers each year, and the GOP is focused on teachers and others who make around 40k a year with decent to just okay benefits. Go figure.

• 9 votes

#1.31 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:31 PM EST roagie

I don’t see how this is not big government telling what they can and can’t do. That’s the crux of the issue isn’t it? Why in the world is it okay for the government to tell a group of people they can’t work together to get better pay? This seems like the most un-republican, and downright Un-American thing ever.

It’s simple freemarket economics. If they could replace the teachers easily then a union wouldn’t matter. The government could go out and hire a 1000 new teachers tomorrow…The problem is this is skilled labor… and you can’t just grab any Tom, Dick, or Harry off the street to teach a kid calculus (or anything else for that matter), well not effectively.

Another problem I see is most people against teacher’s unions seem to believe that teachers are way overpaid. Based on the average education acquired per career, teachers are no where near the top of wage earners. Now I know someone is bouncing in their chair right now screaming they only work 9 months a year! Guess what, the average I just listed was based on an hourly wage so the 9 month a year argument doesn’t hold water. Newsflash teachers are paid only for the work they do during the 9 months they choose whether or not to receive paychecks over the summer or not by dividing their salaries by 9 or 12. Simple test, how many teachers you know are living in huge houses and driving luxury cars?

Another argument I’ve been seeing is they’re all lazy and overpaid. Well let’s see if it were easy work, more people would be doing it wouldn’t they? Especially, given the arguments of the anti union movement that they are overpaid for too little work, we should see a rash of new teachers bounding out of college for the “gravy train” life of the Union Teacher. Fact: Only 60 percent of those trained to be teachers move directly into teaching jobs, and of those who do, only 50 to 60 percent will still be teaching five years after entering the profession. Translated: due to low salaries people get private sector jobs instead, and the job is so hard after five years a large percentage quit.

I don’t see how it’s okay that the government tell people what they can and can’t do.. This doesn’t seem like a democrat or republican argument to me, its about American and Un-American. It is Un-American for a state government to BAN a group of people from joining or creating a union when other American’s have that right. It is Un-American for a governor to send police after members of congress who are peacefully protesting. But what do I know… it seems I am the only sensible republican left.

• 7 votes

#1.32 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:41 PM EST foxhole atheist

I am a union government worker, and I pay for my retirement. I think it’s funny when someone says something totally baseless, like that we dont’ pay into our retirement, and that it’s 100% tax based. It’s even funnier when other people believe it because they want to, but haven’t done any research. Those might be the dumbest Americans out there – the ones who don’t know how to think for themselves. Organized labor is about the only thing keeping corporate America from winning their class war they’ve waged upon us, and turing this into third-world Argentina, circa 1982.

• 12 votes

#1.33 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:42 PM EST Eddie P-1928078

I keep hearing that “unions had a purpose at one time.” What has changed?

I will answer this question, when unions were created it was to defend against big business, today there are so many laws to protect the workers that did not exist in the early 1900’s. For example, FMLA, ADA, FLSA, workers comp, civil rights act, EEOC, DOL to name a few. Unions are not needed to protect the worker because the law protects the worker. If you are wronged you can file a claim with the EEOC or Dept of Labor, or file an individual lawsuit.

Just like social security, the free ride will eventually end as not enough money goes into the pot as is taken out. That is the same for benefits and pensions.

• 10 votes

#1.34 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:42 PM EST BoBo the Clown

Doc Strange – “I keep hearing that “unions had a purpose at one time.” What has changed? Please explain to me how an employer will no longer exploit their employees? Nothing has changed, this is the way it always has and always will be.”

What has changed is the Unions dont protect all employees anymore. They protect the poor workers, that are only there because they cant be fired due to the unions. They protect based on tenure vs who is a good worker. The good workers do not need the protection of the union. If they are good workers, they will be in demand. They will get paid & treated well because the company will not want the lose of the quality worker. If the company doesn’t care/doesn’t treat that employee right- the good employee will be able to go find work elsewhere.

Yes, there will always be employer’s that will take advantage of the worker. Just as there are good, hard working union workers and lazy workers, and good cops & bad cops etc. There will always be the exception – but in todays age – the employee can negotiate by letting his work speak for him, instead of being lumpped in with the poor worker who leeches off the company because of the protection of the union.

Based upon basic laws of protection ADA etc – good workers dont need the unions. They would get to keep those dues, that are basically being stolen from the worker. Unions are no longer about worker’s rights. They are about being political machines. They are nothing more than lobbiests with forced dues.

• 9 votes

#1.35 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:43 PM EST Sherminator505

Interestingly, Spanky, that’s not my situation as a public employee.

Right now 8.9% of my paycheck goes toward my retirement plan (our Legislature wants to raise that, by the way).

On average, private employees in my line of work earn 15-20% more than I do (with an advanced degree).

So please don’t tell people this yarn about overpaid employees with free retirement plans, because it is patently false!

Oh, and BoBo, the name fits.

• 5 votes

#1.36 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:45 PM EST foxhole atheist

EddieP says: “If you are wronged you can file a claim with the EEOC or Dept of Labor, or file an individual lawsuit.”

Ever tried to file a claim like that? Ever tried to generate the legal funds to defend yourself against corporate lawyers, while making barely enough to pay the rent? Ever tried to survive on workman’s comp in the last 20 years? Nope, you haven’t. And, that’s apparent.

• 3 votes

#1.37 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:46 PM EST T-Penn

“Strength, courage, and power to the People….my wish is that you prevail in this great fight in Wisconsin” sounds awfully similar to “Strength, courage, and power to the People….my wish is that you prevail in this revolution in the People’s Republic of China/ Democratic People’s Republic of Korea”

This is just sad…it’s simple: Union = Socialism & Communism. And we Americans don’t want either. For those who are so in love with unions, I suggest you go and immigrate to China & North Korea, I’m sure they’ll show you the “real love”.

• 3 votes

#1.38 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:47 PM EST foxhole atheist

Hey, T-Penn:

I’m a combat veteran; two tours. I was an infantryman in the US Army. I’m also a government union worker. You don’t speak for me. Get out of my country, and get off my coattails. I hope I get to see you on the sidewalk someday so I can spit in your ungrateful, undeserving face. Seriously. Get out of here. You don’t deserve to live in this country. Having fought for it, I know.

• 7 votes

#1.39 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:52 PM EST Spanky-

And there youhave it according to an bonifide government union worker.

If you disagree with him you need to “get out of the country.” And let not forget – you get a spit in the face, to boot.

Really? Is that how it works Mr. foxhole?

You think you come off as a tad bit uncivil?

• 7 votes

#1.40 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:09 PM EST bigD-2278400

Yes, I am paid by the taxpayers, and every morning I go to work I am thankful for their generosity. The tax payers inturn I hope are thankful for me. Not only am I educating and keeping their children safe during the day, but I am maintaining the high value of their property as well. My district (which is in Ohio) is rated Excellent with Distinction. Which is the highest rating a school can get. It makes our community a desirable place to live, especially for young families. It’s a symbiotic relationship. Their taxes pay for their school, their school serves the community. Sorry for any spelling errors, I don’t like typing on my phone.

• 2 votes

#1.41 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:10 PM EST Sherminator505

Gee, Spanky. I’m feeling a little left out here. Care to rebut my comment?

#1.42 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:11 PM EST basedrum777

Bobo,

How can we judge a teacher? Or a cop? Or a firefighter? If there are less fires in a year they make more? Their response time? Its not possible. A teacher in NJ (one of the most liberal states in America) gets paid less than 1/2 of their counterparts in the private sector. I know this because I’m and accountant and my wife is a teacher. She makes less than 1/2 of what I do 6 years into our careers. Even if you extrapolated her salary for 12 months (which isn’t possible since getting a job at that rate for 3 months is impossible) she still makes less than 1/2 of what I make. And she pays 1.5% of her benefits and about 7% towards her pension. The teachers contribution to the pension btw is paid in full. ITs only the state side that is not.

And to RRobeson, you fail to realize that a teacher/firefighter/policeman takes ownership of their salaries based upon the work they do. SO your analogy that they are paid in taxpayer funds which is part then paid into a pension fund is still taxpayer funds is wrong. They are paid with taxpayer funds but their salary becomes theirs once they perform their services to the state. I’d think you’d be able to follow that but if not please repost your nonsense and I’ll try again.

• 2 votes

#1.43 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:11 PM EST Kevin Q

union-busting republicans, what else is new…..union workers are willing to pay increased medical and retirement increases. but you can’t outlaw collective bargaining in the state…..what happens if santa fe railroad transfers me to wisconsin, will i lose my right to bargain because i work in that horrible state??…republicans, WHERES THE JOBS??

• 6 votes

#1.44 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:18 PM EST Joe-755363

Doc Strange

I keep hearing that “unions had a purpose at one time.” What has changed? Please explain to me how an employer will no longer exploit their employees? Nothing has changed, this is the way it always has and always will be.

And I’m not even in a union.

Too add onto the previous post listing government departments, there are also laws in place to protect the employee from exploitation. Overtime laws, child labor laws, minimum wage, OSHA makes sure the work environment is safe, social security is in place, workers compensation, state department of labor, unemployment benefits, employment practices laws regarding terminations, hiring, etc, etc.

As to foxhole complaining about not being able to afford a lawyer to file a lawsuit…..BS! All you have to do is call the department of labor and file a complaint. Or could it be possible you were fired for cause and didn’t have any basis to sue?

• 3 votes

#1.45 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:31 PM EST rapture2010

Unions have a strong tendency to join in “sympathy” strikes when another union goes on strike. Don’t think for one minute that the problem brewing in Wisconsin will only involve state gov’t workers and teachers. Many other unions will join especially if it is perceived as an opening round attack against all forms of unionization, which it appears to be. Then Wisconsin will grind to a halt.

But they’ll always have plenty of CHEESE!!

• 1 vote

#1.46 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:34 PM EST upstateny-2098796

Not sure everyone is talking the same language here. A 401K plan is not a retirement plan. It is funds to be used when you get to retirement age. Retirement plans are normally funded only by employers, private or public. My understanding, which is limited is that public retirements plans are based on years of service and salary for the last X years at least here in NY. That is how SOME public employees PAD their retirement plans. They save up overtime / vacation days to be paid out in the end thus increasing their retirement payout. It’s a touchy subject so just my two cents worth – actually only worth a penny but what the heck….

• 2 votes

#1.47 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:39 PM EST monkeymonkey

@rrobeson

Unions have one purpose, to become so powerful as to be able to destroy their enemy (the employer).

That’s the best thing I’ve heard all day! So, unions will destroy their employers, right? And when that’s done, the employees won’t be able to pay the union dues OR have a job OR need for the union. Once the union ‘destroys’ the employer, there’s no need for a union because there’s no job.

GENIUS!

• 3 votes

#1.48 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:49 PM EST Joe Radmacher

I said earlier that I had a cushy public sector job that I couldn’t afford to keep. I paid for Health Insurance and contributed to my pension. General Electric offered me almost three times as much to work for them. I had to take it because I couldn’t make ends meet paying Child Support and trying to eat.

What I didn’t tell you is that General Electric @#!*% near killed me. That non union job was exempt from overtime so I ended up working 65 to 75 hours a week. I was also on call seven days a week, 24 hours a day, 344 days a year. I am being fair here because I did get three weeks of vacation. I was almost always called up in the middle of the night since I was supporting Servers all over the world.

After I worked at General Electric for a couple of years they started outsourcing jobs to India and things got even worse. I was a slave for the company in every sense except that I could quit. It took 3 offshore workers to get what one person could do in the United States, the quality of our software went down. Our support suffered because of language barriers and not to offend anyone but when these workers came from overseas to the US to work they stunk up the place. It wasn’t the fault of the workers but they only showered once a week and they used cheap cologne and had that curry smell. There were several times during the end of the week when I got on the elevator I would be gagging from the smell.

We needed a Union but didn’t have one and then to even make it worse they started laying Americans off and bringing in people from India. They even made the people getting laid off train the person that was taking their job. General Electric and other multinational corporations started abusing H1B Visas and broke the law in doing so. They didn’t get in trouble they just paid off some politician.

Most Corporations are abusing their workers today and getting away with it. The middle class needs to stand up for themselves. No one is going to give us anything unless we fight for it. When I pay taxes and my friend next door who is a firefighter gets paid its his money, he earned it risking his life. When my sister who is a teacher gets paid she earned it and she works her tail off and really cares about your kids while you are off at work. Could you imagine what you would pay in daycare if the teachers were not there.

Wake up people Republicans are on the side of corporations and the rich, they have always been, they hook you in with their BS family values right after they send a sexual page to one of their workers. We do need to rebel or we won’t have any rights left either, we will be slaves of Corporations, @#!*% we already are.

• 5 votes

#1.49 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:49 PM EST goliph

Kevin Q. There is a difference between public and private unions. When public service unions negotiate a new contract, they are sitting on both sides of the table. They donate to candidates to get them elected and then those elected officials are the ones deciding on contract provisions. It was FDR who said that public service workers should not be unionized.

• 3 votes

#1.50 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:59 PM EST Rob-523523

goliph: “It was FDR who said that public service workers should not be unionized.” I believe JFK said basically the same thing – it’s an inherent conflict of interest. The negotiators on the other side of the table don’t have their own skin in the game….they’re simply playing with Other People’s Money (i.e. the Taxpayers’ money), not their own. They’re not particularly motivated to push back union demands. So of course, over time, the unions will get more and more of what they want….until the money runs out.

• 2 votes

#1.51 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:29 PM EST WMG-21

Union’s can serve a purpose good for both individual members and their communities… but most often they don’t. Consider, for example, teacher’s unions. The have initiated an intense bureaucracy that makes it almost impossible to fire a teacher for any offense at all– including negligence and sexual misconduct. As a result, there are hundreds of teachers that are paid to sit in an off-campus room for 8 hours a day doing whatever the @#!*% they @#!*% well please (crossword puzzles, surfing the net, reading) all on the tax-payers’ dime while their lengthy (and I mean lengthy) firing process is carried out.

Don’t believe me? Check out 20/20’s special report:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw

• 2 votes

#1.52 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:38 PM EST Chickenmann

The point Spanky is trying to make here, and it is a valid one, is that every dime a federal, state or local employee makes, either now or in perpetuity, comes from the taxpayer dime. Whether a state employee chooses to get all their money now or defer it till later in hopes of a greater more stable future, it is all done with “public” money.

Every government employee earns its living from the sweat and effort of non government employees. That may not be a very popular viewpoint, but it is true, nonetheless.

In my opinion, the more private employees we have, the better.

• 2 votes

#1.53 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:44 PM EST Rob-523523

Unions have had a history of strangling their employers to death, then wondering where did all the jobs go? Hmmm…

Look at the slow, painful death of the US steel industry, once an employer of hundreds of thousands. Unions will blame it on the greedy CEOs (or politicians), usually anyone but themselves – that’s standard union propaganda. But the reality is that the U.S. is no longer an “island” in the global economy (as it arguably was during the 20-30 years following WWII), and US labor must compete against labor the world over. And, as long as there are people on this planet willing to work for $2/day, production will always go to them. Why? You may blame it on the CEO who moved production overseas, but he or she shouldn’t be the ultimate target of your blame. The ultimate target should be yourselves, as consumers. You pride yourselves in shopping around for the most cost-effective products, getting good deals, in so doing preserving just that much more of your hard-earned money for other necessities. Keeping materials costs down is one of the ways those products stay affordable to you, and purchasing managers will shop around to keep those costs down. (If they don’t, you’ll buy from their competitor who does.) If they can’t get favorable pricing on American-made products, they’ll go overseas for them. Obviously, China has been more than willing to compete in recent years.

So you can spew your obsolete union propaganda all day long, but until you can figure out a way to force consumers, yourself included, to buy overpriced goods against their will, you’ve got nothing. The old adage, “follow the money,” is particularly applicable – because if you really follow it full circle, you’ll trace right back into your and your neighbor’s wallets.

• 1 vote

#1.54 – Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:58 PM EST